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IS THERE A THING ON, IS THERE A MIC ON? OH, THERE WE GO.I WANNA THANK YOU FOR MAKING THE TIME FOR THIS CONVERSATION.
UM, AS THE BODY CHARGED WITH OVERSEEING THE MARTINSBURG PRESERVATION WORK, YOU'RE THE MOST INTIMATELY CONNECTED TO THE EXISTING GUIDELINES ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
AND SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR US AS WE BEGIN THIS UPDATE THAT WE FIND OUT FROM YOU WHAT'S WORKING WELL AND WHAT ISN'T.
UM, THE CITY BROUGHT OUR TEAM IN TO REWRITE THE GUIDELINES.
AS YOU KNOW, THEY'RE LIKE 40 YEARS OLD.
AND SO BOTH, UM, WITH BEST PRACTICES IN HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND WITH LEGAL DEFENSIBILITY, AND, UM, WITH THE FACT THAT THERE'S ZONING REG, THERE'S ZONING SCOPE WITHIN THE GUIDELINES THAT REALLY NEEDS TO LIVE WITHIN ZONING.
UM, THERE'S JUST A LOT OF REASONS TO HAVE AN UPDATE.
AND SO THE GOAL IS TO REALLY SUPPORT HIGH QUALITY PRESERVATION WITH GREATER CLARITY AND PREDICTABILITY, BOTH FOR YOU ALL AS THE, AS THE COMMISSION, AND ALSO FOR THE APPLICANTS AND THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE AND WORK IN THE DISTRICT.
SO, I'M GOING TO, THIS IS MOSTLY A CONVERSATION.
I'LL BE ASKING Y'ALL QUESTIONS IN JUST A MINUTE, BUT, UH, WE'LL START, BECAUSE WE HAD A SURVEY.
YOU MAY HAVE PARTICIPATED IN THAT, AND IT JUST SEEMED LIKE IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA IF WE START WITH LETTING YOU KNOW WHAT WE'VE HEARD FROM THE COMMUNITY.
SO THESE FINDINGS AREN'T GONNA SURPRISE Y'ALL.
UH, BUT WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT HERE IS THAT THEY CONFIRM PATTERNS OF HOW THE COMMUNITY IS THINKING.
THEY'RE NOT JUST ISOLATED ANECDOTES OR OUR PROFESSIONAL OPINION.
SO WHAT WE'RE HOPING TO DO IS BUILD A DOCUMENT NOW THAT REFLECTS THE FEEDBACK THAT WE'RE GETTING CONCERNING, UH, THE DISTRICT STANDARDS.
AND WE WERE REALLY PLEASED TO GET 130 RESPONSES.
IT'S IN A COMMUNITY THIS SIZE, AND FOR, UH, SURVEY THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY PRETTY DECENT.
UM, WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT MOST OF THE RESPONDENTS, 41% WERE BETWEEN 54 AND 70, 55 AND 74, WHICH THE, THE CITY AVERAGE AGE, UH, THE MEDIAN AGE IS 37 AND A HALF.
UM, THE STATE'S MEDIAN, I THINK IS 38 AND A HALF.
SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE A FAIRLY YOUNG COMMUNITY, BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S THE OLDER GENERATION THAT HAS MORE TIME,
BUT ANYWAY, IT'S THE OLDER DEMOGRAPHIC THAT'S RESPONDING.
A QUARTER OF THE RESPONDENTS LIVE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
UH, 11 HAVE BUSINESSES, 10% WORK HERE, AND IT'S REALLY NICE, 69%.
AND OF COURSE, IT COULD BE A COMBINATION OF THE PRIOR CATEGORIES ACTUALLY VISIT FOR SHOPPING, DINING, AND EVENTS.
SO WHAT THIS TELLS US IS OF THE SAMPLE SIZE, IS THAT A LOT OF THIS SAMPLE ARE ENGAGED IN DOWNTOWN IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER OTHER.
SO THIS IS A WORD CLOUD THAT WE PUT TOGETHER.
WE ASK PEOPLE FOR THREE WORDS THAT COME TO MIND WHEN THEY THINK OF, OF DOWNTOWN.
AND SO THERE'S A DEEP APPRECIATION FOR THE HISTORIC FABRIC, BUT THEY'RE ALSO STRONG CONCERNS ABOUT THINGS LIKE VACANCY, SAFETY, MAINTENANCE.
UM, ONE THING THAT I WAS REALLY INTERESTED IN IS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF WORDS HERE THAT HAVE TO DO WITH PROGRESS, LIKE GROWING AND IMPROVING AND TRANSITIONING.
AND SO THE PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE CITY FOR A WHILE, UM, ARE SEEING A CHANGE FOR THE BETTER DOWNTOWN, AND THAT THAT'S VERY ENCOURAGING.
UM, 79% OF THE PEOPLE MADE PRESERVATION IS ONE OF THE HIGHEST PRIORITIES.
THE THE 21% WEREN'T AGAINST IT, IT'S JUST THAT IT WASN'T THEIR TOP PRIORITY.
SO WE SEE THAT IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO NEARLY ALL OF THE RESPONDENTS, BUT THEY DO WANT TOOLS TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR PRESERVATION TO BE, UM, ACCESSIBLE.
SO THE CHALLENGES THAT PEOPLE IDENTIFIED, UH, COST WAS THE BIGGEST OBSTACLE AND, UH, TO MAINTAINING OR IMPROVING HISTORIC BUILDINGS.
AND THAT'S CLOSELY FOLLOWED BY A LACK OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT OR INCENTIVES.
RIGID RULES, LIMITED FLEXIBILITY, UM, ARE THINGS THAT PEOPLE COMPLAINED ABOUT, UM, BEING DIFFICULT TO ADAPT BUILDINGS TO FIT MODERN NEEDS.
WE'VE HEARD SOME CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE,
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UM, APPLICATION OF VINYL AND HOW THAT'S DONE.UM, AND CREATIVE LIMITATIONS WAS VERY LOW.
A A LOT OF TIMES WE GET BIG COMPLAINTS ABOUT, UH, FROM THE ARCHITECTURAL COMMUNITY ABOUT, YOU'RE STIFLING MY CREATIVITY, BUT WE DIDN'T.
AND THEN AS FAR AS PRIORITIES GO, AS LOVE, THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE HIGHLY FOCUSED ON THE FACADES AND THE ARCHITECTURE, HOW THE BUILDINGS LOOK AND BEHAVE, BUT THEY'RE ALSO VALUING THINGS LIKE, UM, YOU, THE STREETSCAPE, UH, THE STREET TREES, THE VALUE OF WALKABILITY, UM, THE, THE CIVIC SPACES AND LANDMARKS.
SO THERE, THERE'S A BIG RANGE OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE REALLY CARING ABOUT WHEN IT HAS TO DO WITH PRESERVATION.
AND MOST WITH, THE FINAL QUESTION WAS ABOUT THE, UM, ART DISTRICT THAT PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO DISCUSS.
AND MOST RESPONDENTS WANT TO SEE CREATIVE EXPRESSION DOWNTOWN.
THEY WANT TO ENCOURAGE THAT, BUT ALSO THERE'S SOME SUPPORT OF PROVIDING SOME GUARDRAILS TO KEEP THAT COMPATIBLE WITH THE HISTORIC CHARACTER.
SO AT THE CORE OF THIS PROJECT IS ABOUT CREATING A TOOL THAT MAKES GOOD HISTORIC DISTRICT IMPROVEMENTS EASIER, NOT HARDER.
THE GUIDELINES WON'T JUST BE A SET OF RULES, BUT THEY SHOULD BE A PRACTICAL RESOURCE THAT HELPS PROPERTY OWNERS, BUSINESS OWNERS, THE HPRC AND CITY STAFF, ALL NAVIGATE THE PROCESS WITH CONFIDENCE, AND THEY SHOULD.
THEY, I MEAN, THE CLEAR AND OBJECTIVE STANDARDS ARE CRUCIAL WHEN IT COMES TO LEGAL DEFENSIBILITY.
UM, PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW WHAT IS EXPECTED OF THEM AND HOW TO RESPOND.
AND YOU ALL, AS THE COMMISSION THAT HAS OVERSIGHT, YOU SHOULD KNOW WHAT IS EXPECTED AND WHAT TO BE ABLE TO APPROVE OR DENY.
SO REMOVING UNCERTAINTY IS ONE OF OUR, OUR PRIMARY GOALS, THE PREDICTABLE OUTCOMES, UM, COME OUT OF THOSE CLEAR AND OBJECTIVE STANDARDS, STREAMLINED APPROVALS.
WE'VE HEARD A BIG REQUEST FOR THAT, THAT IF YOU DO SOMETHING SMALL THAT, AND YOU CHECK THE BOXES OF WHAT'S EXPECTED, THAT SHOULDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO COME TO THE COMMISSION.
THAT SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE ADMINISTERED BY STAFF.
SO IN SHORT, WE WANT TO PROVIDE A USER-FRIENDLY DOCUMENT, UM, THAT SIMPLIFIES THE PROCESS AND WHILE INCREASING THE PREDICTABILITY.
AND IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT WRITING REGULATIONS, IT'S REALLY ABOUT MAKING PRESERVATION AND REVITALIZATION PRACTICAL AND, UM, ACHIEVABLE FOR EVERYONE THAT'S INVOLVED.
SO HERE'S WHERE, UH, THE CONVERSATION BEGINS.
UH, BY THE WAY, WE'VE BEEN OUT TAKING LOTS OF PHOTOS TODAY, AND WE ARE AN ABSOLUTELY SMITTEN WITH THE QUALITY OF ARCHITECTURE AND HISTORY THAT YOU HAVE PRESERVED, AND THAT FUNCTIONS VERY WELL.
AND SO, AS PART OF THE GUIDELINES, UH, PROCESS, WE ALWAYS BEGIN WITH THE POSITIVE BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE THINGS THAT WORK WELL, AND WE DON'T WANNA BREAK THOSE OR OMIT THEM OR LEAVE THEM OUT.
SO THAT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR Y'ALL.
UM, WHAT, WHAT WORKS WELL? IS IT THE MATERIALS CONTROLS, SITE FEATURES, DESIGN STANDARDS? WHAT IS CLEAR, RELIABLE AND HELPFUL TO YOU AS REVIEWERS AND TO APPLICANTS THAT THEY SEEM TO APPRECIATE? THERE AREN'T ANY REAL CLEAR STANDARDS IN THE, THE ORDINANCE THAT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, SUPPOSED TO REVIEW.
IT'S A VERY AMORPHOUS KIND OF GUIDELINE.
THE, BASICALLY THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR'S GUIDELINES, HISTORIC PRESERVATION GUIDELINES AS WELL AS SHIPPERS, BUT IT'S THOSE, THE THAT SHOCKED ME ABOUT YOUR GUIDELINES IS THEY DON'T MENTION, UH, THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS.
BUT ANYWAY, BUT IT'S YOUR PROCESS.
EVERYONE HAS BEEN GIVEN BIG, THE BIG OLD PACKET THAT WE WORK WITH.
I I DO KNOW, AND YOU MAY NOT BE AWARE OF THIS, UM, AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES IN THE PAST, THERE'S BEEN AN EFFORT TO PUT TOGETHER WRITTEN GUIDELINES, AND BOTH THOSE TIMES IT WAS REJECTED.
AND WHAT CAN, CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY THAT WAS? WHY? WELL, PRIMARILY IT WAS TOO RESTRICTIVE AND IT, IT WOULD PRODUCE SUCH A BIG DOCUMENT THAT WOULD BE UNWIELDY
[00:10:01]
AND IT WOULD HAVE TO BE UPDATED CONSTANTLY.AND, UH, THE LAST, NOW, THE LAST TIME IT HAS BEEN RECENTLY, THE LAST TIME WAS WHEN WE EXPANDED THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND WHEN WAS THAT? IT'S BEEN, BEEN BEEN A WHILE, YEAH, BEEN A WHILE SINCE THAT WAS CONSIDERED AND REJECTED.
BY, BY THE COMMISSION OR BY COUNCIL, OR BOTH? BY THE COMMISSION.
AND, AND IT WAS IN THE PROCESS OF THE WORKSHOPS OF TRYING TO DO THAT, THAT IT WAS, IT WAS NEVER LIKE, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA VOTE ON IT.
WE JUST, IT'S JUST NOT WORKABLE.
WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE HORSEPOWER PARTLY.
WELL, THAT'S REALLY GOOD TO KNOW.
SO IS THAT A, THAT'S A WARNING? WELL, NO, IT'S NOT A WARNING.
IT'S JUST THAT WE'VE TRIED BEFORE AND IT, WE HAD TROUBLE.
SO WHAT I TAKE AWAY FROM THAT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT DOESN'T GET UNWIELDY.
UM, AND THAT IT DOESN'T, IT IS WRITTEN BROADLY ENOUGH THAT YOU HAVE ROOM FOR FLEXIBILITY AND THAT IT'S WRITTEN IN A WAY THAT IT DOESN'T NEED, UM, REGULAR UPDATES.
AND BY THE WAY, I THINK YOU JUST HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH A SECOND POINT THERE, WHICH IS FLEXIBILITY.
I THINK THAT'S ONE THING THE COMMISSION REALLY PRIDES ITSELF IN, IS BEING TO WORK WITH THE APPLICANT TO SAY, OKAY, WE KNOW THAT, FOR INSTANCE, WOODEN WINDOWS ARE COST TOO MUCH.
THAT'S JUST NOT, YOU KNOW, AND SO WE, WE TRY TO COMPROMISE MM-HMM
AND THAT'S, THAT FLEXIBILITY IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK THE COMMISSION DOES PRIDE ITSELF ON.
UM, AND TAKING EVERY SINGLE PROPERTY ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS.
UM, SO THE NEXT QUESTION IS, ARE THERE, IS THERE ANY SORT OF CONTINUITY FOR TYPES OF APPLICATIONS THAT, THAT TEND TO STALL OUT OR GET REJECTED OR HAVE TO GO BACK FOR, UM, REVISIONS? I MEAN, CAN YOU SAY IT'S FREQUENTLY SIGNAGE OR IT'S FREQUENTLY, YOU KNOW, MAINTENANCE, OR IT'S FREQUENTLY NEW CONSTRUCTION? IS THERE ANY SORT OF, UH, TRENDS? I THINK IT'S VERY RARE THAT WE'VE REJECT APPLICATIONS.
UM, IT'S USUALLY HAS TO BE SOMETHING PRETTY EGREGIOUS.
IT'S, IT'S, UM, NORMALLY THINGS, UH, CLEAR US PRETTY, PRETTY EASILY.
UM, ESPECIALLY WITH SIGN SIGNAGE, ENLISTS, SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY, UM, STANDS OUT, BUT NOTHING'S, AND OF COURSE, THE SIGNAGE, THERE'S, THERE'S TWO THINGS.
WE LOOK AT THE AESTHETIC PROPERTIES OF THE SIGN, BUT THEN THERE'S ALSO A SIGN ORDINANCE REGARDING SIZE AND YEAH.
MOUNTING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO WE ARE JUST LOOKING AT THE AESTHETICS.
AND I'VE SIGNED, I, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE LAST TIME WE REJECTED DESIGN.
STRATEGICALLY, A, A BEST PRACTICE IN COMMUNITIES WHERE WE'VE WORKED, WE TAKE EVERYTHING OUT OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT IS REGULATED BY ZONING, BECAUSE THERE'S THE POTENTIAL FOR CONFLICT THERE.
AND, UM, SO OUR FIRST OFFER OR SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO TAKE THE SIGN CODE OUT OF YOUR JURISDICTION AND PUT THAT UNDER ZONING, BECAUSE YOU CAN WRITE REALLY CLEAR, VERY EXPLICIT, UNDERSTANDABLE STANDARDS FOR SIGNAGE.
AND, AND WE HAVE TO BE SO CAUTIOUS ABOUT ANYTHING THAT ISN'T CONTENT NEUTRAL.
SO, UM, SO WE CAN DO TYPE OF SIGN LOCATION, UM, SIZE, COPY SIZE, BUT ONCE YOU GET INTO ANYTHING ELSE, THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE STARTING TO TREAD ON FIRST AMENDMENT STUFF.
SO WE TEND TO BACK OFF OF, OF ANYTHING THAT COULD GET US IN TROUBLE WITH THAT.
BUT, BUT THAT'S REGULATED BY ZONING ANYWAY.
SO WHEN IT COMES UNDER YOUR PURVIEW AND THEN IT HAS TO GO THROUGH ZONING, THEN YOU SORT OF GET THESE CONFLICTING, UM, OVERSIGHTS.
SO LET ME JUST ASK THE COMMISSIONERS.
CAN ANYONE REMEMBER WHEN WE HAVE REJECTED THE SIGN? UM, THE ONLY, THE ONLY THING THAT EVEN COMES CLOSE WAS THE, THE APOLLO YEAH.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, WE WERE OBJECTING TO THE ELECTRONIC PORTION OF IT, WHICH WAS ALSO PART OF THE, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE FULL INFORMATION.
BUT ONCE WE GOT THE INFORMATION, IT WAS NO PROBLEM.
I MEAN, LEMME JUST GO BACK TO THAT.
AS I THINK ABOUT THAT, TECHNOLOGY'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT IS CREEPING UP ON US.
WHAT'S THE CHANGEABLE ELECTRONIC SIGNS?
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THAT WAS ONE OF OUR BIG CONCERNS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.YOU GOT FLASHING LIGHTS MM-HMM
AND, UM, THAT WAS ABOUT OUR BIGGEST CONCERN.
AND, AND THAT'S, THE APOLLO WAS THE SAME, SAME, SAME CONCERN.
UM, BUT AGAIN, WE DIDN'T REJECT IT.
I MIGHT HAVE REJECTED THAT ONE.
UM, UM, MANY SIGNS ARE ALSO VINYL SIGNS ON THE INTERIOR OF WINDOWS.
I WOULD DEFINITELY BE IN FAVOR OF REMOVING DECALS FROM OUR PURVIEW.
IT'S RIDICULOUS FOR US TO LOOK AT STICKERS.
OKAY, SO HERE'S A QUESTION FOR YOU.
WHAT ABOUT NEON? HOW DO YOU, WHAT, WHAT IS YOUR ERA OF SIGNIFICANCE FOR DOWNTOWN? DO YOU HAVE THAT, LIKE A SINGLE ERA THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT? LEMME JUST SAY, I DON'T, NOT NEITHER.
UM, OUR TOWN HAS A VAST ARRAY OF ERAS MM-HMM
UM, WHETHER IT'S THE FIFTIES OR THE FORTIES, THIRTIES, UP TILL THE 1800, 17 HUNDREDS, 17 HUNDREDS.
SO NOW, AND, AND THIS COMPLICATES MATTERS A LITTLE BIT, UM, THERE'S ACTUALLY 10 HISTORIC DISTRICTS INSIDE THE CITY OF MARTINSBURG, RIGHT.
UH, ON THE NATIONAL RE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES.
UM, AND DOWNTOWN'S ONE OF THEM.
BUT THE IDEA WAS THE REASON THERE WASN'T JUST ONE BIG AREA, IT WAS EACH AREA OF TOWN, BOYD AVENUE VERSUS EACH MARTINSBURG.
AND SO, UM, BUT TO BE HONEST, WE HAVEN'T ZEROED IN ON, ON NEON, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY EXTERIOR NEON.
THE NEON THAT, WELL, THE VFW SCENE HAD BEEN INSIDE THE BUILDING.
BUT VFWS NEON, WE, WE TEND TO, WHEN WE REGULATE NEON IN A HISTORIC AREA, WE, WE TEND TO SAY BASED ON THE ERA, ERA OF SIGNIFICANCE, THAT LIKE A NEON SIGN IN A WINDOW ON THE INSIDE IS FINE, LIKE OPEN OR CLOSED OR WHATEVER.
BUT LIKE THE VFW NORMALLY ISN'T THE TYPE OF SIGN THAT, UM, THAT IS.
NEON SIGNS AREN'T REALLY COMING UP, I THINK DUE TO A COST ISSUE.
THEY'RE EXPENSIVE MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
THERE'S FIXED LED NEON LOOK, PROBABLY.
NOW, LEMME JUST BOUNCE BACK TO YOUR QUESTION.
ABOUT WHAT PERIOD OF TIME ARE WE TRYING TO LOOK AT, AT DOWNTOWN MARTINSBURG? UM, SO MUCH OF DOWNTOWN WAS CHANGED IN THE FIFTIES AND SIXTIES.
UPDATED, UH, THE STOREFRONTS CHANGE, OR AT LEAST FIRST FLOOR STOREFRONTS CHANGED.
THAT HAS MADE A BIG, THAT HAS MADE IT CHALLENGING TO ZERO IN ON ANY KIND OF PERIOD.
ONLY IT'S TRYING TO WORK WITH NEW OCCUPANTS AND NEW OWNERS WHO WANT TO REVITALIZE AND BRING BUSINESS IN.
AND SO HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF IN THE, IN THE NEW GUIDELINES, IF WE SET AN ERA THAT IS REFLECTIVE OF THE, THE FEDERAL DISTRICT'S ERA.
SO WHATEVER, WE CAN LOOK THAT UP WHEN, WHEN IT WAS ESTABLISHED AND, AND WHATEVER, WHAT THE ERA OF SIGNIFICANCE WAS WHEN THE DISTRICT WAS ESTABLISHED.
IF WE CHOOSE THAT FOR YOUR STANDARD, FOR YOUR STANDARDS, BECAUSE PART OF OUR CONTRACT IS TO ACTUALLY PROVIDE WORK ON, UM, STYLES, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE RANGE OF STYLES DOWNTOWN AND PROVIDING GUIDANCE BASED ON THE STYLE.
UM, BUT WHEN YOU SAY WHEN IT WAS LISTED OR SO IN AN APPLICATION, RIGHT.
YOU HAVE TO DECLARE THE ERA OF SIGNIFICANCE FOR THE, UH, SECRETARY OF INTERIOR TO CONSIDER IT AND GIVE ALL THE REASONS WHY, YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE CITY WAS RELEVANT, WHETHER IT WAS ARCHITECTURAL OR ECONOMIC OR GOVERNMENTAL, OR WHATEVER THE THING WAS THAT MADE IT SPECIAL.
UM, AND I'M GUESSING THAT YOU'RE PROBABLY BECAUSE OF YOUR COLONIAL ERA IS PROBABLY A LONG TIME AGO.
I DON'T, I KNOW WHEN THE, WHEN THE DISTRICTS WERE PLACED ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER, BUT I DON'T RECALL THEM YEAH.
IT'S PROBABLY THERE AND I JUST DON'T KNOW.
YEAH, I CAN, I CAN LOOK IT UP AND, AND, AND SEND YOU THAT, THOSE DATES AND SEE WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THAT.
THE ISSUE IS, OF COURSE, OUR DOWNTOWN ISN'T COLONIAL.
I WOULD SAY GIVEN THE WIDE VARIATION THAT LIMITING IT TO ONE ERA IS GONNA BE HIGHLY RESTRICTIVE AND PROBABLY IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA.
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THINGS FOR YOU.YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SAY THE HIGHEST PRIORITY IS THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, UH, IF YOU CARE TO, IF THAT IS YOUR HIGHEST PRIORITY, UM, OR NOT.
UM, SO NOW LET'S GET INTO THE ACTUAL PROCESS.
SO WHEN SOMEONE, UM, SUBMITS AN APPLICATION AND STAFF PROCESSES IT AND, AND IT GETS ON YOUR CALENDAR AND THEN COMES BEFORE YOU, WHAT'S ARE, WHAT ARE THE PIECES OF THAT PROCESS THAT ARE THE MOST, UM, DIFFICULT OR ONES OR CHALLENGING, NOT JUST FOR YOURSELVES, OUR STAFF, BUT ALSO TRY TO THINK ABOUT HOW THE APPLICANT'S EXPERIENCE IS? I DIDN'T, I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA DO ALL THE TALKING.
OFTENTIMES WHEN A CASE COMES IN, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I LOOK AT IS WHAT IS BEING CHANGED.
'CAUSE IF NOTHING'S BEING CHANGED, IT DOESN'T NEED TO COME BEFORE US.
I MEAN, IF THEY'RE JUST PAINTING THE SAME COLOR, REPLACEMENT IN KIND DOESN'T EVEN NEED TO COME HERE.
UM, SO ANYTHING THAT COMES HERE IS A, IS SOMETHING BIG.
IN OTHER WORDS, MINOR MAINTENANCE.
IT'S, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMETHING BIG.
IS IT VINYL SIDING, UH, BEING PUT OVER WOOD? IS IT, UM, IS IT REMOVING A TIN ROOF, PUTTING ON A ASPHALT YEAH.
WHAT, WHAT IS THE CHANGE? YOU KNOW, IS IT WINDOWS? WHAT'S THE CHANGE? UM, THAT'S, THAT'S THE FIRST THING I LOOK FOR.
AND THEN THE NEXT THING IS, WELL, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE AGE OF THE BUILDING? BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THE FIRST THING IS WHAT'S THE CHANGE? AND THE NEXT THING IS, WELL, WHAT BUILDING IS IT? YEAH.
UM, OFTENTIMES, AND THIS IS THE UNFORTUNATE THING, AND I'LL BRING THIS UP NOW, ALTHOUGH IT'S PROBABLY ON YOUR LIST ALREADY, A 1960S OFFICE BLOCK.
IF THEY NEED TO PUT IN A NEW GLASS DOOR, I'M NOT SURE WHY IT NEEDS TO COME TO US.
UM, NOW THERE'S NOT THAT MANY, BUT IT HAP IT'S HAPPENED.
UM, SO THAT'S A STANDARD WE COULD INCLUDE THAT IF THE BUILDING WAS BUILT BEFORE X, THAT IT HAS TO HAVE YOUR REVIEW.
AND IF IT'S AFTER X, THEN IT JUST GOES THROUGH ZONING BECAUSE YOU HAVE A GOOD DOWNTOWN ZONE ALREADY, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS VERY REFLECTIVE OF THE, THE MASSING AND SCALE OF BUILDINGS.
IT'S THE RIGHT HEIGHT, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT SETBACKS, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GOOD WORK THAT WENT INTO THAT.
AND, UM, IT WILL PROTECT THE STREETSCAPE AND THE GENERAL, UH, RHYTHM AND, AND MASSING OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
SO IF IT'S, IF IT'S A NEWER BUILDING, THEN I, I COULD SEE YOU CHOOSING NOT TO OVERSEE THAT.
DO WE NEED COMMISSIONERS? HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT? I MEAN, I, YEAH, THAT'S SOMETHING I'VE ALWAYS SAID.
OH GEE, THIS, THIS ONE DOESN'T REALLY, ISN'T REALLY WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR.
AS LONG AS THAT DOESN'T JEOPARDIZE THE HISTORIC, JUST, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
SO AS LONG AS EXCLUDING THOSE MORE RECENT BUILDINGS DOESN'T IN ANY WAY JEOPARDIZE THE, AND THEN HOW WOULD THAT RELATE TO NEW, NEW CONSTRUCTION? YEAH.
UH, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT BECAUSE YOU, YOU DEFINITELY WANNA HAVE SOME INPUT ON THAT.
UM, ONCE AGAIN, ZONING WILL DO A GOOD JOB.
THE QUESTION IS, IF YOU, YOU KNOW, IF YOUR MISSION IS TO IMPACT STYLE, IF YOU FEEL LIKE STYLE IS A PART OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO REPLICATE, UM, NOW THAT'S AN AESTHETIC JUDGMENT.
THE, THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR ACTUALLY RECOMMENDS AGAINST THAT.
THEY SAY THAT ARCHITECTURE SHOULD BE OF ITS TIME.
AND SO WHILE YOU REFLECT MASSING AND SCALE, YOU DON'T TRY TO DO ANOTHER FEDERAL BUILDING.
UM, SO IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE PHILOSOPHY OF THE, OF THE COMMISSION.
SO IF YOU'LL GIVE THAT SOME THOUGHT, THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
SO, UM, WHAT ELSE SHOULD WE KNOW AS WE DIG INTO THIS? WE'VE HAD ONE SURPRISE ALREADY THAT YOU TRIED TO DO IT BEFORE AND IT FAILED
UM, SO YOU ASKED, WELL, WHAT ARE, YOU KNOW,
[00:25:02]
WHAT ARE OUR BIGGEST ISSUES? I DON'T WANNA SAY THAT.UM, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA READ DOWN WHAT I THINK IT'S REMOVAL OF ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES.
SUCH AS, UM, GINGERBREAD, FISH SCALE, UH, THOSE KIND OF THINGS ON, ON HOMES PRIMARILY.
UM, WHAT ELSE DO I HAVE HERE? RAILINGS, THOSE ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES.
AND THOSE ARE WHAT WE ARE OFTEN ASKED TO APPROVE THE REMOVAL OF.
AND THAT'S WHAT I THINK IS ONE OF THE, OUR BIGGEST CHALLENGES.
UM, THE OTHERS ARE VINYL SIDING AND THEN VINYL WINDOWS.
I THINK THAT MAY NOT BE THE EXACT ORDER, BUT YEAH, THE VERY FIRST ONE IS DEFINITELY THOSE ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES.
UM, YEAH, THOSE ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES CAN EXIST ON A, WITH, ON A HOUSE WITH VINYL SIDING.
IT'S JUST THAT WE TOO OFTEN REQUEST INCLUDES REMOVING THOSE THINGS HAVE, LIKE MOVING TO MORE TOWARD A MORE LOW MAINTENANCE CONTEMPORARY MATERIAL.
HAVE YOU, HAVE Y'ALL EVER TRIED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT USING LIKE, CEMENTITIOUS PANELS, LIKE HARDY PLANK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? YES.
AND WE, WE HAVE, YEAH, BECAUSE THAT, I, I THINK IS, IS A PRETTY REASONABLE, UH, REPLICATION.
THE, THE PROBLEM WITH VINYL, UM, IS IT DEGRADES, YOU KNOW, IT FADES UNEVENLY.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT AS LONG TERM, IT'S NOT A DURABLE MATERIAL.
SO, UM, I UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF IT.
IT'S A LOT MORE COST EFFECTIVE.
AND I THINK ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WE DEAL WITH IS MANY OF THE HOMES IN THE AREA ARE, ARE RENTAL PROPERTIES.
UM, AND SO OBVIOUSLY THE LANDLORD IS WANTING TO MAINTAIN A, AN, AN ATTRACTIVE HOUSE WITH AS LOW MAINTENANCE AS POSSIBLE.
UM, AND OR, AND A NEW AND A NEW PROBLEM.
WE JUST DISCUSSED IT AT THE LAST MEETING.
UM, THINGS CHANGE AS WE GO ALONG.
SOMEONE COMES IN, BUYS THE HOUSE, FIXES IT, AND WANTS TO FIX IT UP AND, AND SELL IT QUICKLY.
AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS TRYING TO MODERNIZE.
AND FREQUENTLY, AND I'LL JUST SAY THIS FREQUENTLY, I DON'T KNOW HOW OFTEN I'VE HEARD THIS, GEE, MY REALTOR DIDN'T TELL ME I WAS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THEY, THEY SAY WHEN THEY COME IN HERE AND THEY SAY, WELL, GEE, I, YOU KNOW, I BOUGHT THIS AS A RENTAL PROPERTY.
I DIDN'T KNOW, MY REALTOR DIDN'T SAY A THING.
I KNOW, I THINK YOU'RE GONNA BE MEETING WITH REALTORS LATER IN YOUR PROCESS, SO IT'S SOMETHING TO BRING UP.
UM, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT, UH, FROM COUNCIL'S PERSPECTIVE, COULD YOU ALL, IS THAT SOMETHING YOU WOULD EVER PUT IN TITLE REQUIREMENTS? NO.
SO IT'S JUST THE ETHICS OF THE REALTOR.
WE DO NEED TO DISCLOSE IT THOUGH.
THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR REALTOR TO DISCUSS, BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE CONSIDERED A TITLE EXCEPTION.
YOU WOULDN'T PUT THAT IN THE TITLE REPORT.
WE ARE, WE WILL START WORKING ON THE DRAFT, UM, THIS SUMMER, AND WE'LL HAVE YOU SOMETHING TO CONSIDER BY THE END OF THE SUMMER, EARLY FALL.
UM, SO I DON'T KNOW, I KNOW THE COMMUNITY'S HERE TONIGHT.
IF YOU WANTED TO ALLOW TIME FOR, UM, PUBLIC INPUT, WE WOULD APPRECIATE IT.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS ON YOUR THOUGHTS.
SO I DON'T KNOW HOW Y'ALL DO THAT,
SO IT'S ON THE, ON THE RECORD.
AND I GUESS ALSO STATE YOUR NAME AND THEN GOOD EVENING EVERYONE.
UH, MY NAME IS MATTHEW UMSTEAD.
MY ADDRESS IS 1 0 1 1 WEST VIRGINIA AVENUE.
I LIVE OUTSIDE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
HOWEVER, IN THE PAST I DID LIVE WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
UM, JUST TOUCHING UPON THE AWARENESS ISSUE JUST BRIEFLY.
UM, IF THE DOWNTOWN MARTINSBURG HISTORIC DISTRICT DOCUMENT WAS, UH, INCORPORATED INTO A WEBPAGE FORMAT, IT WOULD BE BREAKABLE BY GOOGLE, AND THEREFORE IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE VISIBLE FOR ANY GOOGLE SEARCH.
SO THE DOCUMENT IS IN, CURRENTLY IN PDF FORM, IT IS NOT RANKABLE FOR GOOGLE SEARCH RESULTS.
SO THEREFORE THE VISIBILITY OF, UH, REAL ESTATE BEING IN A DISTRICT OR OUTSIDE OF A DISTRICT IS NOT VERY PROMINENT ONLINE.
SO THAT WOULD BE ONE RECOMMENDATION I WOULD MAKE FOR ALL DOWN ALL THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS IN MARTINSBURG.
[00:30:01]
I WOULD ALSO JUST MODERNIZE THAT LISTING, EVEN IF IT IS RE REPRODUCING THAT DOCUMENT WITH PICTURES TO GO ALONG WITH THE ADDRESSES OF THE LISTINGS THAT DOCUMENT.I THINK THE DOCUMENT ITSELF IS ALSO 50 PLUS YEARS OLD, AND THE UPDATE OF THE DISTRICT ITSELF IS IN, IS IT IS TIME TO REVISIT WHAT IS HISTORIC.
UM, I WORKED ON AND SUBMITTED SUCCESSFULLY THE ADDITION OF ONE 10 WEST KING STREET TO THE NATIONAL REGISTER.
IT WAS A 47 PAGE ENDEAVOR, UM,
THE BUILDING WAS BUILT IN 1970, SO IT THEREFORE IS 50, WELL, 50 PLUS YEARS OLD.
SO THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AGAIN.
THE THE LAST BUILDINGS ADDED WERE DONE IN THE INITIAL LISTING, AS YOU ALL PROBABLY KNOW, 19 79, 19 80.
SO THAT ONLY WENT BACK 50 YEARS.
SO IT STOPPED AT 19, WHATEVER THAT IS.
BUT ANYWAY, I ALSO CHAIR THE ROUNDHOUSE.
OBVIOUSLY IT'S THE ONLY NATIONAL HISTORIC LANDMARK IN THE COUNTY AND THE CITY.
AND YOU ARE ONLY KNOWN BY YOUR ARCHITECTURE.
YOUR TOWN IS DEFINED BY WHO, WHAT YOUR ARCHITECTURE LOOKS LIKE.
AND YOU SHOULD NOT ABSOLUTELY NOT DEGRADATE THE CHARACTER OF YOUR ARCHITECTURE OF YOUR TOWN, OTHERWISE YOU JUST BECOME ANOTHER SUBURB, UN UNDEFINABLE.
AND, UH, OR YOU END UP BECOMING LIKE POOR DOWNTOWN CUMBERLAND, WHERE MY MOM GREW UP.
AND YOU HAVE A FRAGMENT OF THE BEAUTIFUL ARCHITECTURE ONCE WAS THERE.
THAT'S JUST, UM, I COULD RAMBLE ONE FOREVER, BUT I LET OTHER PEOPLE TALK.
I ALSO OWN 2 0 3 EAST MARTIN STREET.
UH, THE PROPERTIES DOWNTOWN, I, I DON'T KNOW WHEN THEY DID IT FAR BEFORE MY TIME, BUT THEY FELT THE NEED THAT ALL OF DOWNTOWN NEEDED TO BE PAINTED RED OVER BRICK.
WHAT WOULD BE THE PROCESS OF REMOVING THE RED PAINT AND GOING BACK TO OUR NATURAL BRICK AND AS IT WAS BUILT? WELL, BY THE WAY, I, I AGREE WITH YOU.
AND ACTUALLY, MARTINSBURG HAS LESS OF THAT RED PAINT PROBLEM THAN OTHER CITIES DO.
I THINK THEY DID IT AT ONE POINT IN TIME FOR WATERPROOFING OR, BUT REMOVING PAINT FROM BRICK IS YES.
AND NOT DAMAGING THE BRICK IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE.
AND, AND YOU HAVE TO REPOINT ALL THE MORTAR.
IT'S, IT CAN BE, IT CAN DEGRADATE THE BRICK SIGNIFICANTLY.
THE PROBLEM IS PAINTING IT TO START WITH.
SO AND SO BY THE, WITH THAT BEING SAID, EXCUSE ME, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THIS COMMISSION HAS BEEN VERY CONSISTENT ON IS IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO PAINT UNPAINTED BRICKS, WE SAY NO.
BUT NOW IF THE BRICKS HAVE ALREADY BEEN PAINTED, AND IT'S GENERALLY CHIPPING OFF, AND WE GENERALLY DON'T, WE USUALLY SAY, OKAY, IF YOU WANNA DO IT, IF IT'S ALREADY BEEN PAINTED, OKAY, BUT IF, IF IT'S RAW, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S UNPAINTED BRICK, WE, WE HAVE NEVER APPROVED THAT.
SO IF YOU WANTED TO POWER WASH THE PAINT OFF, WOULD THAT BE APPROVED? UM, OR DO WE JUST LET IT CHECK OFF AGAIN? I THINK THE ISSUE HERE IS, IS DEGRADES THE BRICK AND, AND PARTICULARLY THE, THE MORTAR.
UM, AND DEPENDING ON THE AGE OF THE STRUCTURE, IT CAN, YOU KNOW, I'VE ALSO HEARD THEM SAY THINGS LIKE, UH, WHAT A CON SHELL SANDBLASTING TYPE STUFF.
AND 50 YEARS AGO, THE BIG THING WAS, AND IT, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT WAS THAT LONG NOW, UH, THE SAND BLASTERS CAME IN HERE, AND THERE WERE A LOT OF, A LOT OF THESE BUILDINGS WERE SANDBLASTED, AND NOBODY REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT HARMING THE BRICK, UH, TAKING THE FACE OFF THE BRICK.
THEN THEY WENT FROM SANDBLASTING TO UH, UH, NOW THEY, THEY CHEMICALLY REMOVE THE PAINT.
BUT LIKE YOU SAY, IF IT'S, IF IT'S LIME AND SAND MORTAR JOINTS, YOU'RE GONNA BE POINTING ALL THE MORTAR JOINTS.
DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU'RE CLEANING 'EM OFF SANDBLASTING OR, OR POWER PRESSURE WASHING OR HOWEVER, UH, IT WILL DAMAGE THE, THE MORTAR JOINTS.
AND YOU'LL HAVE TO, TO POINT THEM UP.
IF YOU DON'T, THE WEATHER GETS IN, IN THE WINTER EXPANSION AND CONTRACTION AND YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE PROBLEMS. BUT NO, I LIKE THE IDEA, YEAH.
[00:35:01]
GOING BACK TO THE NATURAL BRICK.THE NATURAL BRICK'S BETTER, BUT I HONESTLY DON'T KNOW OF A SAFE WAY TO DO IT, TO BE HONEST.
THE INTERIOR, LIKE, UH, LIKE LOOK OF THE HOUSE, LIKE CHANGING A COLOR OF A PAINT THAT HAS TO BE APPROVED INTERIOR INSIDE.
YEAH, BECAUSE I HAD, UH, SOMEBODY COME IN, ONE OF THE, UH, INSPECTORS AND ASK IF I HAD MY PAINT COLOR APPROVED.
JUST LIKE THIS WALL? NO, NOT INTERIOR.
AND TOLD ME WE HAD TO CHOOSE IT FROM THE CITY'S COLOR PALETTE.
AGAIN, FAR PART, I DON'T KNOW THE COLOR.
AND BY THE WAY, THERE IS NO MAYBE A PRANK.
THERE'S NO, WE ARE ONLY CONCERNED WITH THE OUTSIDE.
AND ONLY CONCERNED WITH WHAT CAN BE SEEN FROM A STREET.
DOES THAT INCLUDE ALLEYS? IF THEY'RE PUBLIC ALLEYS? YES.
WE DON'T HAVE TOO MANY ALLEYS, BUT YEAH.
AND THERE'S NO COLOR PALETTE, PERIOD.
WE DON'T HAVE A, BECAUSE I DON'T NEED ANY PERMITS FOR THAT MATTER.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHY HE CAME IN
HE JUST WALKED RIGHT INTO MY HOUSE.
I HAVE HEARD THAT RECENTLY ALSO FROM ANOTHER PERSON.
AND I, AND I THOUGHT THEY JUST DON'T, THEY JUST MISTAKEN.
NO, TIM JUST WALKED BY HIM HOUSE AND STARTED.
BUT I THOUGHT I SAW SOMEBODY'S OUT THERE SAYING THAT STARTED PICKING STUFF APART.
HE WALKED RIGHT IN RO INSPECTOR.
DID HE HAVE ID, DID HE HAVE IDENTIFICATION? YEAH, HE GAVE IT TO SOME OF THE GUYS THERE.
UH, I THINK THEY GAVE A CONVERSATION.
SO WE WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO, THE INSPECTORS REDO THIS HISTORICAL PROPERTY, AND IT'S RIGHT THERE ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE APOLLO.
IT'S BEEN NEGLECTED FOR 50 YEARS.
AND MY OTHER QUESTION IS, BEHIND MY PROPERTY ARE TWO DECAYING PROPERTIES.
DO I HAVE TO JUST PRAY FOR LIGHTNING TO BURN 'EM DOWN ONE DAY? OR
WELL, UM, YOU'RE SAYING YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T OWN THOSE PROPERTIES? NO, I OWN ALL THREE.
THEY CAN, ONE IS THE OLD CREAMERY, I GUESS THE FRUIT AND VEGETABLES CAME IN TO MARTINSBURG IN THE 18 HUNDREDS AND WERE PROCESSED.
AND THE OTHER IS AN OLD BARN THAT BACKS UP TO THE RAILROAD STATION, BUT THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE UNSAFE TO GO IN WHEN AT THE PRESENT TIME, THEY COME BEFORE US TO GET APPROVAL.
IF IT'S IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT FOR DEMOLITION, YOU KNOW, DEMOLITION IS ONE OF THE ITEMS. AND USUALLY THE DEMOLITION IS FOR SAFETY ISSUES, USUALLY.
UM, ANYONE ELSE? ANY OTHER MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? WE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR ABOUT IT.
HI EVERYONE, I'M SUSANNA HENDERSON.
I OWN 2 0 8 EAST MARTIN STREET, AND I LIVE AT TWO 11 WESTBURG STREET.
I'M SUPER EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROJECT.
SO THANKS TO THE CITY, THANKS TO YOU ALL.
THANKS FOR THE COUNCIL, UM, FOR HIRING PLACE MAKERS.
THERE WAS SOME INITIAL CONFUSION.
I JUST, I JUST WANT TO GENERALLY SUPPORT IT.
UM, I DO HAVE CONCERNS, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE RIGHT FORM.
I MISSED THE HOMEOWNERS SESSION.
I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS A SESSION JUST ABOUT ENFORCEMENT, UM, OF FELLOW PROPERTY OWNERS WHO SEEM TO MAKE CHANGES, YOU KNOW, ON THE WEEKENDS, SIGNIFICANT CHANGES.
AND THEN TRYING TO WORK WITH US, TRYING TO WORK WITH THE CITY.
LIKE, HEY, CAN YOU SEND SOMEONE OUT? CAN YOU CHECK AND SEE? 'CAUSE ONCE IT'S GONE, IT'S GONE.
AND YOU'LL OBVIOUSLY APPRECIATE THAT VERY MUCH.
UM, AND SO I JUST SEE PROPERTIES SLOWLY, SLOWLY DEGRADING, CHANGING AROUND TOWN, AND YOU JUST NEVER KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
I DON'T WANNA GET IN ANYONE'S BUSINESS, BUT, SO I WOULD YEAH.
YOU KNOW, I, LOOK, I WENT AND UPDATED THE CITY'S WIKIPEDIA PAGE WITH THE 10 HISTORICAL DISTRICTS 'CAUSE I CAN NEVER FIND THEM.
AND THEN SOMEBODY TOOK IT DOWN, SO I'M LIKE, OH, NOW I HAVE TO GO AND GET ANOTHER CITATION AND PUT IT BACK UP.
SO JUST THINGS LIKE THAT, I THINK, TO MAKE PEOPLE MORE AWARE OF HOW PRECIOUS IT IS HERE.
AND SO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ALL YOU'VE DONE ALREADY UP TO THIS POINT FOR EVERYTHING YOU'VE PRESERVED.
UM, SO I'M EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROCESS AND LOOK FORWARD TO MORE PARTICIPATION FROM THE PUBLIC.
BY THE WAY, THAT, TWO THINGS THAT, ON THAT I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS A HOMEOWNER'S, UH, MEETING OR I WOULD'VE COME 'CAUSE I OWN,
[00:40:01]
I I LIVE AND OWN PROPERTY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, SO I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS ONE.UM, BUT THE OTHER THING IS SHE'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
AND IT'S WHAT I CALL GHOST CONTRACTORS.
UM, AND WHAT HAPPENS IS, AND I'VE SEEN IT ON MY STREET TWICE AND ON MARTIN STREET TWICE SATURDAY MORNING, SOMEBODY, THEY RUSH IN, THEY TEAR OFF A ROOF, THEY PUT ANOTHER ROOF ON, AND BY SUNDAY NIGHT THEY'RE GONE.
AND SO I APPROACHED ONE OF 'EM ONE TIME, AND THEN THEY'VE DONE THAT WITH ROOFS AND SIDINGS.
THEY COME IN, PUT UP FINAL SIDING AND GO ON, GO IN SATURDAY MORNING AND THEY'RE GONE BY SUNDAY EVENING.
I APPROACHED ONE OF 'EM AND I ASKED, WHERE'S YOUR BUILDING PERMIT? AND I WAS TOLD, WELL, WE DON'T HAVE A BUILDING PERMIT.
AND I SAID, WHY NOT? HE SAID, WELL, WE AREN'T LICENSED.
WE CAN'T, WE WE JUST DO THIS TO GET MONEY ON THE SIDE.
HE SAID, WE, WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT, YEAH, WE'RE JUST COMING IN TO DO THIS, UM, FOUR TIMES.
AND THIS WITHIN THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF OR SO.
THEY'RE NOT REALLY CONTRACTORS.
THESE ARE JUST GUYS WHO PROBABLY WORK FOR A CONTRACTOR AND MOONLIGHT ON THE WEEKENDS.
BUT THEY, AND HE SAID, WE DO IT ON THE WEEKENDS 'CAUSE NOBODY'S GONNA STOP US.
'CAUSE STAFF'S NOT WORKING ON THE WEEKEND.
SO YEAH, ITS A NICE DEAL OPPORTUNITY.
AND I, BY THE WAY, AND I WAS BOLD ENOUGH JUST TO GO UP AND ASK BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE YOUR PERMIT STUCK ON THE WINDOW OR SOMETHING.
AND SO, SO THAT'S NOT EVEN A FAILURE OF ENFORCEMENT.
AND I, AND JUST TO COMMENT, UM, OFTENTIMES WE'LL APPROVE SOMETHING AND I'LL GO BY AND SEE IF THEY'VE DONE IT.
AND OFTENTIMES IT, THEY DON'T, THE PEOPLE HAVE ASKED FOR SOMETHING OFTENTIMES SIGNS AND IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
IF THEY CAN GET A AGREEMENT, THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO IT.
THEY JUST DON'T, SHOULDN'T DO SOMETHING ELSE.
BUT, BUT YEAH, WE HAVE TO, WE DON'T HAVE ANY FOLLOW UP.
UM, AND I'M NOT SURE WE NEED IT NECESSARILY, BUT WOULD BE NICE.
IT WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW THAT YEAH, THIS HAPPENED.
THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED, THE JOB WAS COMPLETED.
UM, IT WOULD, AGAIN, IT'S NOT NECESSARY, BUT IT WOULD BE A NICE TO KNOW SORT OF THING THAT, THAT, THAT IT, THAT HAPPENED.
YEAH, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF.
FIRST OF ALL, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU, GENTLEMEN, YOUR SERVICE TO THIS BOARD.
UM, I SAT IN THAT CHAIR 20 YEARS AGO, UH, REPRESENTING THE HPRC.
THAT'S WHY I'M GETTING WHITE HAIR.
AND THERE WERE SOME TIMES I'M LIKE, WHAT'S THE STANDARD? I APPRECIATE FLEXIBILITY, BUT FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE HOMEOWNERS, WHICH I DON'T WANNA FORGET IN THIS DISTRICT, THE COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES, INVESTORS, AND JUST STAKEHOLDERS, I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOME CERTAINTY, SOME PREDICTABILITY, SOME CONSISTENCY, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE THAT ARE LOOKING TO COME AND INVEST HERE.
AND THIS REALLY CAME TO LIGHT A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN ONE OF MY LAWYER COLLEAGUES DOWN THE STREET WANTED TO PUT A SIGN ON THEIR DOOR, JUST A REGULAR STENCIL SIGN THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY SUCH AND SUCH COUNSELOR LAW.
WELL, AS YOU KNOW, ANY EXTERIOR IMPROVEMENT IS FOR A PUBLIC HEARING AND IT'S PUBLISHED AND IT COMES IN FOR YOU.
AND I TOTALLY GET THAT ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS, BUT I REALLY THINK THAT FOR THE PURPOSES OF PRESERVATION, WHICH IS REALLY IMPORTANT, BUT FOR THE PURPOSES OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND TO ENCOURAGE FOLKS TO ACTUALLY FIX UP THEIR PROPERTIES THAT ARE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT WE SHOULD ALLOW BY RIGHT.
AND ALLOW JUST TO BE ISSUED BY PERMIT SO THAT WE'RE NOT HOLDING SOMEBODY UP FOR, UH, TO, TO DO AN IMPROVEMENT TO THEIR PROPERTY.
WHICH, YOU KNOW, NO FAULT TO YOUR OATH, I I'M TALKING ABOUT THE PROCESS, NOT ABOUT IT COMING TO YOU.
I MEAN, THERE'S JUST CERTAIN THINGS THAT WE WANT TO HAVE DONE.
I THINK WE ALL AGREE THAT THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED, BUT RIGHT.
BUT THAT'S NOT HOW THE CURRENT ORDINANCE IS.
IT SAYS ANY EXTERIOR IMPROVEMENT SEEN BY THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY SHALL GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
SO I WAS HERE 20 YEARS AGO, THEN I MUST HAVE MISSED THE GAP IN THE PERIOD WHERE YOU TRIED TO DO THIS BEFORE AND NOW WE'RE BACK HERE AGAIN.
AND I HOPE IT'S SUCCESSFUL FOR A LOT OF REASONS, BECAUSE I DO THINK THAT WE HAVE A FIDUCIARY OBLIGATION TO ALSO PROTECT WHAT THE HISTORY IS HERE.
THERE ARE A FEW THINGS, THERE ARE A FEW THINGS THAT MAKE EVERY CITY UNIQUE, AND THE CITY HAS A FEW OF THOSE.
AND IF YOU LOSE THOSE, THEN YOU BECOME EVERY CITY USA SECOND.
AND IT HASN'T REALLY BEEN DISCUSSED TONIGHT, AND THIS IS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A, I'M NOT GONNA SAY COMPLICATED ISSUE, BUT A LITTLE BIT, WELL, I'LL SAY COMPLICATED.
THERE'S A VERY ROBUST ARTS COMMUNITY IN THIS TOWN, AND THEY'RE VERY INTERESTED IN AN ARTS DISTRICT WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? AND WHAT INVOLVEMENT DOES THE CITY HAVE? AND WHAT DOES ART REALLY MEAN WITHIN THE DISTRICT? AND IS IT WITHIN THE PRIVATE REALM? IS IT IN THE PUBLIC REALM? WHERE IS IT? AND I THINK THAT'S THE DISCUSSION THAT I'M HOPING
[00:45:01]
THAT SUSAN AND PLACEMAKERS CAN TRY TO HAVE TOMORROW.UM, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO MEET WITH SOME OF THE ART DISTRICT FOLKS HERE.
I KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT ARE INTERESTED IN TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE ARTS, UM, UH, COMMUNITY FLOURISHES.
AND THEN FINALLY MY LAST POINT, AND I'LL SIT DOWN, I PROMISE.
UH, SOMETHING THAT THE CITY IS WORKING ON WITHIN THIS DISTRICT IS A PODA DISTRICT, WHICH HAS BEEN IMPLEMENTED IN MANY CITIES ACROSS THE STATE SO FAR.
I HATE TO SAY IT, WE'RE NOT THE PIONEER ON THIS.
WE'RE, UM, LAGGING A LITTLE BIT.
FOR THOSE WHO AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH THE PODA DISTRICT, IT ALLOWS BASICALLY THE OPEN CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL UNDER CERTAIN, UM, RESTRICTIONS.
UM, IF YOU GO TO A DRINKING ESTABLISHMENT AND YOU BUY OUT OF A CERTAIN DESIGNATED CUP, YOU CAN GO TO A VOL TO A RETAILER WHO'S VOLUNTARILY PARTICIPATING IN THIS, LIKE JORDAN HESS OR WESTWOOD CHARM.
AND, UM, I CAN TELL YOU THAT, UM, I WENT TO HUNTINGTON AND I MET WITH WITH THEM AND SOME OF THOSE ESTABLISHMENTS.
AND THIS IS INCREDIBLE, GIVEN THE MARGINS THAT THEY'VE SEEN SOMETIMES A 20 AND 30% INCREASE IN THEIR BUSINESS BECAUSE OF THIS MODEL.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON IN THIS DISTRICT.
UM, AND I HOPE THAT WITH PLACEMAKERS LEADING THE WAY, WE CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT HAS SOME CLEAR, CONCISE STANDARDS.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT, IF SOME PEOPLE WANT TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S OUTSIDE, THEN THEY NEED TO COME TO YOU TO APPEAL AND SAY, CAN WE DO THIS? BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT I THINK THAT JUST AS A POLICY MATTER, WE SHOULD ALLOW BY RIGHT.
AND NOT HINDER THE OWNER FROM TRYING TO IMPROVE THEIR PLACE.
BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW, IF YOU'VE TRIED TO HIRE A CONTRACTOR LATELY, IT'S HARD ENOUGH TO DO THAT ANYWAY WITHOUT THEN HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF NOT KNOWING WHEN IT'S GONNA BE APPROVED.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL TRY TO ANSWER THEM.
OTHERWISE, I PROMISE TO SIT DOWN.
THANK YOU, ANDY, ABOUT THE ARC DISTRICT.
UM, I'M SORRY, IIII DON'T WANNA HOLD YOU UP.
PLEASE GO ON AND I'LL JUST, I MAKE MY COMMENTS AFTER YOU MAKE HEARING.
I JUST WANTED TO ASK ABOUT THE ART DISTRICT.
UM, UH, WE'VE HAD A FEW BUREAUS COME BEFORE US AND WE'VE APPROVED SOME, AND NOTHING'S COME VERY RECENTLY.
IS THERE A PARTICULAR AREA OF TOWN THAT'S BEING CONSIDERED AS AN A DISTRICT? UM, WE MET WITH ONE OF THE LEADERSHIP TEAM THIS AFTERNOON, AND, UH, THEN WE'RE HAVING THE LARGER MEETING TOMORROW, AND THEY DON'T HAVE A MAP YET.
UM, THEY HAVE SOME INTERNAL DISCUSSION OVER, WHETHER IT'S JUST DOWNTOWN OR DO THEY JUST WANNA ENCOURAGE THE ARTS MORE BROADLY? WE TRY TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO CHOOSE A PLACE TO START, BECAUSE MOST FUNDERS WANT TO SEE, WANT TO HAVE SOME PREDICTABILITY AND WHERE THEY BEGIN TO SEE THE IMPACT OF THEIR FUNDING.
UM, BUT THEY, UH, THEY SEEMED INTERESTED IN ANYTHING.
YOU KNOW, IS IT, IS IT CREATIVE SIGNAGE? IS IT SOME SCULPTURE, TEMPORARY OR PERMANENT IN SOME OF YOUR PUBLIC SPACES LIKE THE SQUARE? UM, THEY LIKED THE, THE MURAL, UM, INSTALLATION ON, ON, UH, WHAT DO THEY CALL IT? FROGGY FROG HOLLOW.
UM, SO THEY, I THINK THEY'RE OPEN TO VIRTUALLY ANYTHING.
THEY JUST WANT TO SEE SOME, UM, OPPORTUNITIES FOR CREATIVE EXPRESSION.
AND, UM, THEY HAVE A REALLY DIVERSE GROUP THAT ARE INVOLVED, YOU KNOW, MANY TYPES OF ARTISTS.
AND, AND THEY ALSO SEE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR WORKING WITH BUSINESSES BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE BUSINESSES ARE INTERESTED IN THAT PARTNERSHIP.
AND, UH, BUT AS FAR AS HAVING A MAP, THEY, THEY DON'T HAVE A TARGETED AREA YET.
UM, ONE REASON WHY I ASK IS ARE, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH STRASBURG, VIRGINIA AND THEIR ART? YES.
WHICH IS, I DUNNO WHAT EXPANSIVE, I MEAN, IT'S ALMOST, ALMOST EVERY BUILDING HAS IT, OR IT SEEMS LIKE IT, THERE'S A LOT THERE.
AND I THINK THERE'S SOME, I'VE HEARD SOME PEOPLE SAY, WELL, WE DON'T WANT IT EVERYWHERE.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I HAVE TO SAY, STRASBURG IS VERY ATTRACTIVE AND VERY VIBRANT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD WORK HERE.
I'M, WELL, I THINK ONE THING TO THINK ABOUT, AND WE HAD THE CONVERSATION ABOUT PAINTED BRICK, IS HOW DO YOU, AND, AND WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH A GENTLEMAN WE SPOKE WITH TODAY.
HOW DO YOU BOTH PRESERVE THE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OF YOUR ANCIENT BRICK WHILE PERMITTING MURALS? WELL, IF THEY ARE PANEL INSTALLATIONS, THEN YOU CAN HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH.
THE MARKET HOUSE, THE APOLLO THEATER, THESE YEAH.
THEY HAVE PANELS IN SET IN THERE, RIGHT? YEAH.
UM, BRENDA CASONA, I LIVE AT TWO 13 NORTH MAPLE, AND I HAVE A BUSINESS DOWNTOWN IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AS WELL.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO REITERATE PART OF WHAT, UM, ANDY SAID
[00:50:01]
IN THAT IT, TO ME, IT, IT SEEMS OVERLY COMPLICATED AND OVERLY ONEROUS TO HAVE TO COME TO HPRC FOR WHAT I WOULD CALL ROUTINE THINGS.SO FOR INSTANCE, THE ZONING CODE ADDRESSES FENCES, UM, AND IF I WERE TAKING DOWN, LET'S SAY, AN HISTORIC WROUGHT IRON FENCE, THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT.
BUT IF I NEED, IF I'VE GOT A CHAIN LINK FENCE AND I WANNA REPLACE THAT WITH SOMETHING MORE ATTRACTIVE, UM, IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT THERE COULD BE SET GUIDELINES AND TEMPLATES THAT WOULD THEN ALLOW ME TO DO THAT WITHOUT THE PROCESS OF COMING TO HPRC.
BECAUSE AS ANDY SAID, IT IS SO DIFFICULT TO GET A CONTRACTOR.
AND, AND I KNOW THAT'S WHY SOME OF THESE PEOPLE DO A FLY BY NIGHT WEEKEND STUFF BECAUSE THEY CANNOT FIND A CONTRACTOR, BUT THEY CAN FIND SOMEBODY THAT'LL DO THE WORK.
UM, AND, AND I WILL AGREE WITH YOU THAT MANY OF THE, NOT ALL THE LANDLORDS, BUT A LOT OF THE LANDLORDS WOULD, THEY JUST GO FOR THE CHEAP WAY AND THEY WOULDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO FIND A CONTRACTOR.
BUT IT'S REALLY, REALLY DIFFICULT TO GET CONTRACTORS IN JUST ABOUT FOR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING.
SO IF YOU CAN, IF SOMETHING COULD BE STREAMLINED SO THAT YES, IF YOU'RE GONNA REPLACE THIS FENCE, UM, AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT TEARING OUT AN ARCHITECTURAL DETAIL, THEN YOU COULD GO AHEAD WITHOUT COMING TO HPRC.
UM, AND IT WOULD, I I ALSO THINK THAT PERHAPS THAT WOULD WORK ON PAINTING.
IF YOU WANTED TO REPAINT YOUR HOUSE AND MAYBE YOU'RE GONNA CHANGE YOUR COLOR SLIGHTLY.
UM, IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT YOU MIGHT NOT, THAT THAT WOULD SEEM THAT YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE TO COME TO HPRC FOR THAT.
I MEAN, IF YOU'RE PAINTING BRICK, THAT'S DIFFERENT.
UM, BUT IF YOU'RE JUST REPAINTING, BUT CHANGING YOUR COLORS, UM, 'CAUSE I CAN'T, I DON'T RECALL ANY INSTANCE THAT HPRC HAS TURNED DOWN PAINT COLORS, AND WHILE PEOPLE PAINT BUILDINGS AND I, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT REALLY WILD ABOUT THE COLORS.
THAT IS THEIR CHOICE, AND IT REALLY HASN'T DETRACTED FROM THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
UM, I, SO I WOULD LOVE TO SEE WHAT I WOULD CALL SOME ROUTINE THINGS THAT ARE NOT, THAT DON'T INVOLVE THE, UH, ELIMINATION OF ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS.
UM, THAT OKAY, THEY'RE VISIBLE FROM, THEY'RE VISIBLE TO THE PUBLIC, BUT IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO GO TO HPRC, YOU MIGHT SEE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THOSE THINGS DONE.
SO I WANNA FOLLOW UP ON THAT BECAUSE, UM, THE, THE COMMISSION ALSO BROUGHT UP THE PAINT COLOR ISSUE.
AND SO THE QUESTION IS, HOW MUCH OF AN APPETITE, BOTH FROM THOSE OF YOU WHO LIVE AND WORK AND OWN PROPERTIES HERE, AND THOSE OF YOU WHO OVERSEE IT, IS THERE ANY INTEREST IN HAVING A PRE-APPROVED COLOR LIST THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU CHOOSE ONE OF THESE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO, UH, THE PLANNING STAFF CAN JUST CHECK IT OFF.
UM, THAT WE KNOW THAT WE LIKE THESE.
IF I COULD JUST SAY, IF I COULD JUST ADD A FEW OTHER THOUGHTS.
I JUST HAD I PART, I DON'T WANNA HOG THE MIC.
I I'M A TALKER, SO JUST SHUT ME DOWN, MR. CHAIRMAN, AND WHENEVER YOU WANT.
I THINK THE EXPERTISE, IF, IF, IF, IF THE CITY STAFF IS PROVIDED WITH THE EXPERTISE ON HOW TO HANDLE THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR STANDARDS AND THE APPLICATION THEREOF, INCLUDING THE COLOR SCHEMES AND, AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS, AND THEY'RE GIVEN THE EXPERTISE AND THEY HAVE THE TRAINING.
SO WHEN THAT PERMIT REQUEST COMES IN, THEY CAN SAY, OH, HEY, YOU'RE IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND BY THE WAY, HERE'S SOME COLORS.
AND BY THE WAY, HERE'S THE STANDARDS THAT WE, THAT WE ASK FOLKS TO GO BY IN THIS DISTRICT.
RIGHT? AND YOU DO IT IN A VERY POSITIVE WAY.
AND OH, BY THE WAY, WE HAVE A LIST OVER AT THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, CALL THEM, CALL THEM UP.
AND THEY HAVE A PROBABLY A LITTLE LIST, A LITTLE SUB LIST OF FOLKS WHO SPECIALIZE IN HISTORIC RENOVATION, HISTORIC MODERNIZATION, YOU KNOW, AND PRESERVATION CONTRACTORS, RIGHT? SO THERE COULD BE A VERY PRO-BUSINESS WAY OF APPROACH TO CONNECT PEOPLE WITH THEIR HOUSE OR THEIR BUSINESS AND WITH THEIR RENOVATION.
UH, AND, AND THE CITY CAN BASICALLY DIRECT 'EM TO AN EXPERT AND BE HELPFUL AND, AND, AND THEY THEMSELVES WOULD BE MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE TO OFFER THE EXPERTISE.
AND THEN IF THE BUSINESS OR THE OWNER WAS JUST LIKE, SCREW ALL THAT, I WANNA PUT UP PURPLE STREAMERS
[00:55:01]
AND I WANNA FLY EIGHT FLAGS ACROSS THE FRONT OF MY BUILDING, THEN THEY HAVE TO COME HERE AND APPEAL AND ASK FOR THAT APPROVAL.THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I SEE IS IN A MODERN, AS AN ADVANCEMENT OF PROCESS.
I MEAN, THAT'S JUST MY TAKE ON IT.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, BASICALLY WHAT I'M SAYING IS INFUSE THE EXPERTISE LEVEL AND THE STAFF HERE AT CITY HALL GIVE THEM THE STRENGTH AND THE KNOWLEDGE AND THE BACKGROUND IN ORDER TO GUIDE THESE PEOPLE IN A VERY CONSTRUCTIVE, HELPFUL, FIRST VISIT KIND OF WAY, INCLUDING PHONE NUMBER TO HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION WITH A LIST OF CONTRACTORS WHO MAY VOLUNTARILY SAY THAT THEY'RE SPECIALIZING IN THESE KIND OF AREAS.
SO THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO SAY IS THIS.
I'M AN OUTGOING MEMBER OF THE WEST VIRGINIA COMMISSION ON THE ARTS MEMBER, ONE OF 15 MEMBERS IN THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA.
IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE AND A JOY SERVING ON THAT BOARD.
I BELIEVE THERE'S TWO CATEGORIES OF ART, AND I'M NOT GONNA COME HERE TOMORROW NIGHT, SO DON'T WORRY, YOU WON'T HEAR ME AGAIN.
BUT THERE ARE TWO CATEGORIES OF PUBLIC ART BEAUTIFICATION AND THE EXPERIENCE.
SO THE QUESTION IS, YOU WANT BEAUTIFY, THERE'S SOME AREAS YOU JUST FLAT OUT NEED TO BEAUTIFY.
SO YOU INCENTIVIZE THE AREAS THAT YOU NEED TO BEAUTIFY, YOU INCENTIVIZE 'EM, YOU RANK THEM.
HOW HIGHLY VISIBLE ARE THEY? HOW MANY PEOPLE WALK PAST, HOW MANY CARS DRIVE PAST? HOW UGLY ARE THEY? WHAT'S THE FEASIBILITY OF BEAUTIFYING THEM? RIGHT? SO YOU RANK, SO YOU GET STATISTICAL JUSTIFICATION FOR INCENTIVIZING.
IN OTHER WORDS, THE TOP FIVE AND THAT SCORE, GET $5,000 GRANT AND SEND IT TO FIX THAT BEAU AND MAKE IT BEAUTIFUL NEXT FIVE DOWN THE LIST.
MAYBE THEY ONLY QUALIFY FOR UP TO 3,500, SO ON AND SO ON.
SO YOU CHECK THE BOXES AND YOU KNOCK THEM OFF THE LIST.
THEN YOU HAVE YOUR EXPERIENCES WHERE IT'S IMMERSION, IT'S A SCULPTURE GARDEN, IT'S IN A PARK.
THOSE ARE SPECIAL PROJECTS IN A SEPARATE CATEGORY, IN A SEPARATE TUB, A SEPARATE BOX OF, OF FUNDS.
THAT'S IN MY OPINION, HOW YOU ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU WANNA ACCOMPLISH WITH PUBLIC ART.
THERE'S A BEAUTIFICATION ISSUE AND A NEED, AND THEN THERE'S A, AN IMMERSION EXPERIENCE.
AND THAT'S HOW I WOULD APPROACH IT.
THAT'S ALL I REALLY, I MEAN, I SUBMITTED SOME OF THESE COMMENTS IN THE SURVEY AND YEAH, NOW YOU KNOW WHO DID IT.
ANYWAY, BACK TO YOUR QUESTION REGARDING PAINT COLORS.
UM, THAT WAS OUR BIGGEST STUMBLING BLOCK IN 2012, OR I, WHEN, WHEN THIS CAME UP BEFORE, UM, AND IT WAS IN, IT WAS BASICALLY WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO EXPAND THE DISTRICT, A PAINT COLOR THAT MIGHT BE GOOD FOR A FEDERAL STRUCTURE ISN'T GOOD.
OR A 1970 STRUCTURE WOULDN'T BE GOOD FOR A FEDERAL STRUCTURE.
AND SO WE'D CLARIFY THE DIFFERENTIAL.
AND THAT WAS ONE OF OUR ISSUES.
AND THEN WHAT DO YOU, DO YOU NAME THE, THE MANUFACTURER, THE PINK MANUFACTURER? WE WOULDN'T, WOULDN'T DO THAT.
WE WERE, ALL THESE THINGS WERE A LOT PART OF THE STUMBLING BLOCK.
THAT, THAT MADE US SAY, OKAY, THIS IS, THIS IS, WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO BITE OFF MORE THAN WE CAN CHEW WHAT WE CAN PROVIDE.
AND THE CURRENT BEST PRACTICE IS TO PROVIDE WHAT'S CALLED A HEX COLOR.
IT'S, IT'S THE TECHNICAL COMBINATION OF CMYK AND THE, THE APPLICANT TAKES IT TO WHOEVER THEIR FAVORITE PAINT SHOP IS, AND THEY CAN MIX THE COLOR EASY, VERY EASY.
AND AGAIN, AS IT, AS IT WAS MENTIONED, UM, I DON'T THINK, WE'VE ACTUALLY NEVER REJECTED A PINK COLOR.
WE'VE OBJECTED TO PAINTING BRICK.
BUT YEAH, WE'VE ACTUALLY RECENTLY, BUT, SO THIS IS IN, IN RECENT TIME.
NOW I KNOW IN THE PAST I HAVE, WHEN I FIRST GOT ONTO THE COMMISSION, THERE WERE PAINT ISSUES AND COLORS WERE, WERE, UH, REJECTED.
AND, BUT IN RECENT YEARS, I MEAN, LOOK DOWN MAIN STREET, YOU COULD, I MEAN THE, WE GOT THE COLOR OF THE RAINBOW ON MAIN STREET, AND I THINK WHEN, WHEN WE SPOKE WITH NEVER REJECT PEOPLE, THEY WERE SAYING, PAINT'S EASY.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE COLOR, PAINT OVER IT.
IT'S LOW ON THE LIST OF PRIORITIES AND THEREFORE IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN, TO THE LADIES' POINT ABOUT MAKING THE EASY THINGS EASY.
AND, AND, AND ANDY'S POINT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MAKING EASY THINGS EASY,
UM, THEN WE CAN EASILY PROVIDE A LIST OF PRE-APPROVED COLORS THAT WOULD NEVER HAVE TO DARKEN YOUR DOOR.
YOU KNOW, THAT THEY KNOW THAT IF THEY, THEY CAN GET STAFF TO SIGN OFF ON THAT.
UM, THERE, THE ISSUE REGARDING FENCES AND HER, HER EXAMPLE WAS GREAT.
CHAIN LINK FENCE, YOU KNOW, REPLACE, TAKE IT DOWN, TAKE.
WHO MAKES THE DECISION? WHAT'S GOOD AND WHAT'S BAD? YEAH.
SOME PEOPLE MIGHT THINK TYPES OF FENCES.
[01:00:01]
MAYBE NOT THE BEST, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THERE IS AT, AT SOME POINT WHERE A A AN INDIVIDUAL MIGHT NOT LIKE SOMETHING SAY, OH, THIS IS, IT'S OBVIOUS THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN GET RID OF THIS EASY.BUT YEAH, SOMEONE FROM A HISTORIC POINT OF VIEW MIGHT NOT THINK THAT.
IT'S ONE OF THOSE, I'M SAYING, UM, YOU KNOW IT WHEN YOU SEE IT TYPE OF THING.
WELL, I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT YEAH, THAT, YEAH.
AND SO WE USUALLY DO IT BASED ON THE, UM, ERA OF CONSTRUCTION.
SO IF IT WAS, IF YOU CAN PROVE IT WAS INSTALLED MORE RECENTLY THAN 19, PICK A NUMBER 70.
UM, THEN, SO SAY 50 YEARS, IF IT'S BEEN INSTALLED IN THE LAST 50 YEARS, YOU HAVE TO, YOU CAN REPLACE IT IF IT'S BEEN, IF IT WAS INSTALLED PRIOR TO THAT, YOU HAVE TO ASK PERMISSION TO REMOVE IT.
UM, HOW DO YOU PROVE YOUR FENCE WAS INSTALLED IN THE LAST 50 YEARS? YEAH, THAT'S DIFFICULT.
THAT'S THE STICKY WICKET THERE.
UM, THE OTHER THING IS WE USUALLY RECOMMEND FENCING STAYS IN ZONING BECAUSE ZONING REGULATES IT.
AND SO, BUT TYPICALLY WHAT ZONING DOES IS WE'LL REGULATE HEIGHT, PRIMARILY WE WOULD ADD FOR YOUR DOWNTOWN DISTRICT, WE WOULD ADD A LIST OF TYPES OF FENCING.
AND USUALLY WE ALSO HAVE DIFFERENCES IN HEIGHT BASED ON WHETHER IT'S ON THE FRONT STREET, THE SIDE STREET, OR A PRIVACY FENCE OR THE ALLEY.
UH, SO, YOU KNOW, WE CAN ADD ALL OF THOSE REGULATIONS INTO ZONING WHERE IT BECOMES VERY CLEAR AND OBJECTIVE AND AND DEFENSIBLE.
UM, AND YOU GUYS WOULDN'T HAVE TO SEE IT, I GUESS, AND I WAS USING FENCING AS AN EXAMPLE BECAUSE OF THE DISCUSSION.
UM, BUT I GUESS I WOULD SAY I, SOME PEOPLE MIGHT SAY, OH, UM, I DON'T HAVE A GREAT EXAMPLE, BUT, UH, LET'S SAY, UH, ROUND GUTTERING VERSUS RECTANGULAR GUTTERING THING, I'M VERY, THEY SAY, WELL, THEY MIGHT NOT, WHO, YOU KNOW, AT WHAT POINT IS THAT DECISION MADE? AND I'M A LITTLE WORRIED THAT SOME ADDITIONAL BURDENS GONNA BE PLACED ON CITY STAFF TO MAKE JUDGMENT CALLS.
IT WILL BE, OKAY, THIS, THIS IS, YOU'RE GOOD, THIS IS GOOD.
OR THIS ONE NEEDS TO GO FURTHER FOR, TO THE COMMISSION.
UH, IN OTHER WORDS, A A, AN ADDITIONAL BURDEN ON CITY STAFF.
AND I THINK THE FENCE ISSUE MIGHT, AGAIN, I'M, I DON'T WANT TO PICK ON FENCES, BUT JUST A PROPERTY OWNER MIGHT MAKE A DECISION OH, NO.
THAT, THAT DOESN'T, THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE.
AT WHAT POINT MIGHT THAT BE STOPPED? I'M NOT TRYING TO STOP PEOPLE FROM DOING STUFF, BUT I'M JUST SAYING YEAH.
UM, AGAIN, I SEE PEOPLE RIPPING OFF GINGERBREAD BECAUSE, OH, IT JUST NEEDS TOO MUCH.
BUT DO THEY DO IT WITHOUT, WITHOUT PERMISSION.
SO THEY'LL KEEP DOING IT WITHOUT PERMISSION.
OR THEY'LL SAY, OH, WELL, WE'RE GONNA REPLACE IT WITH VINYL GINGERBREAD.
IT JUST DOESN'T LOOK QUITE THE SAME.
ANYWAY, UM, I JUST, THERE'S SOME CONCERNS, AND BY THE WAY, I JUST WANNA REALLY MENTION THE, THE CONTRACTOR ISSUE IS A PROBLEM.
IT, YOU JUST CAN'T GET, IT'S DIFFICULT.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SOMETHING ABOUT WORKING IN THE CITY OR IF IT'S JUST A PROBLEM EVERYWHERE.
BUT JUST GETTING CONTRACTORS, AND I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY DO THE FLY BY NIGHT DURING THE WEEKEND.
I HAVE TROUBLE GETTING CONTRACTORS TO DO WORK ON MY HOUSE, SO I TOTALLY GET IT.
UM, I WISH THERE WAS A ANSWER.
YOUR MONEY IN NEW CONSTRUCTION.
YOU, YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
YOU COME IN HERE AND YOU WANNA WORK ON THE BELL BOYD HOUSE.
UM, THAT'S THE WHOLE SPECIALTY IN ITSELF.
HAZEL BORIS ON THE FRONT ROW, SHE, SHE HAS A HABIT.
SHE HAS A, SHE HAS AN ADDICTION OF BUYING AND RENOVATING AND RESTORING HISTORIC PROPERTIES.
AND SHE'S FOUND IN HER EXPERIENCE THAT EVERYTHING COSTS WHAT, TWICE WHAT YOU THINK IT WILL, BECAUSE OF ALL THE STUFF YOU FIND, WHAT YOU START UNCOVERING.
IT'S, IT'S NOT LIKE NEW CONSTRUCTION AT ALL.
I MEAN, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE TRULY BRINGING BACK A HISTORIC STRUCTURE, IT, IT'S, THERE'S NOTHING COST EFFECTIVE ABOUT IT.
WELL, WE'VE KEPT YOU ALL OVER.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR, UH, GENEROUS COMMITMENT OF TIME THIS EVENING AND FOR THE WORK YOU DO.
UM, OBVIOUSLY MARTIN BUR MARTINSBURG HAS FLOURISHED UNDER YOUR CARE, AND SO WE WANNA MAKE IT EASIER FOR YOU AND FOR YOUR COMMUNITY TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT.
[01:05:01]
HELP, PLEASE.AND YOU NEED TO REACH OUT TO HR HPRC.
AND I'D LIKE TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR COMING TONIGHT TOO.
APPRECIATE, THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO.